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 wallysgurl |
So, how are we feeling about the pitching staff? |
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Hot Dawg
Posts: 845 03/19/08 8:47 AM Dawg in Training |
Anyone else getting a vaguely uneasy feeling about our pitching rotation this year? Beckett gets my complete confidence. I hope Dice-K can go deeper in games
this year. Will be interesting to see how Wake works with Cash. The kids... who knows.
Will Craig Hansen ever be the pitcher the Sox thought he'd be? Joan |
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jack0329 |
#1 | |||
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Rem Pup
Posts: 386 03/19/08 9:00 AM Rem Pup |
Will Craig Hansen ever be the pitcher the Sox thought he'd be?In short no. He needs to get his slider back to where it was and rebound from the sleep apnea thing. But he could be an asset in the pen if he gets it together. As for the rotation I think it could be one of the best in the league. But there are a lot of question marks. How much will Lester and Buck contribute? How will Wake fare with his back and new catcher. Can Dice improve on 2007? Will we see Schill at all in 2008? Etc. I think they will be fine but not without some bumps in the road.
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Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual. ----John Winger, Stripes. |
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harleybuc |
#2 | |||
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Rem Pup
Posts: 246 03/19/08 10:40 AM Rem Pup |
I'm a bit uneasy too, but only because there are so many questions. Things will get sorted out as the season progresses.
I'm pretty confident Dice-K will have a better 2008. He had a lot of things to adjust to last year, he'll be more comfortable this year. Wake is Wake. When the knuckleball is dancing he's practically unhittable. When it's not, look out. I'm kinda worried about Beckett's back. My husband was wondering if the Sox are exaggerating his injury to keep him from going to Japan. |
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bjaustin1953 |
#3 | |||
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Hot Dawg
Posts: 1515 03/19/08 1:00 PM Hot Dawg |
If I remember correctly, last year's Spring Training games weren't all that wonderful either. Are we maybe expecting too much from these games?
Aren't they supposed to use this time to work things out so that when the regular season does start, they're ready to go?
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TheMalzone |
#4 | |||
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Rem Pup
Posts: 30 03/19/08 3:25 PM Rem Pup |
I like them. They are sharp, aggressive and each one gives a different look. My concern is the youth factor and more so, the lack of 4-5 yrs experience in the
last 3 slots. Wake is past that, Lester and Buckholtz under it. As for young pitchers, I would rather have one not two in the rotation. I think this will also
bite the Yankees too.
Like to have MLB seniority in the rotation but not over 40! It would be really special if Colon can make it back come May and be effective for awhile before the, (IMO), inevitable re-injury. The depth in this area is not strong. I see Theo picking up one more 4 or 5 starter because injuries will be more noticeable in this years rotation as opposed to last years. Hate to say it but don't be surprised if Schilling never touches the mound again. |
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rgmfick |
#5 | |||
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Rem Pup
Posts: 182 03/20/08 12:26 PM |
The Red Sox are going to get a look at a mixture of their experienced pitchers, Beckett and Wake, at DiceK who does not have as much Major League experience
as Josh, but almost as much pro experience and at least the 2 young pitchers, Lester and Bulchhoz. They may also, over the season, look at Masterton, Bowden,
Bard and a number of other younger pichers. Don't know if Colon will pitch in the ML again. It depends on whether he gets back his location, as he does
seem to have the velocity. I agree Schilling is a real ? The Red Sox FO does seem to have the williness to make changes during the season with trades,
signings and other moves. They certainly do not seem to have budgetary reasonable limitations so if they are close to being in the race, they have the
incentive to make such moves.
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tebookie |
#6 | |||
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Rem Pup
Posts: 18 03/20/08 1:27 PM |
A lil uneasy, but time will tell. Hopefully this back this with Beckett doesn't linger for long.
Same for Wakefield...hopefully he can avoid the injuries this season. A little less hype surround Dice-K this year...I'm hoping he can settle in nicely in 2008. The young guns? We just have to wait and see. |
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Clemens Fried Chicken |
#7 | |||
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RemDawg
Posts: 3197 03/21/08 10:22 AM RemDawg |
Feeling much worse now than I was 4 months ago. My main concern is Beckett. I think we forget that the success of 2007 was a function on his massive
turnaround. If he reverts to anything like 2006, the team could be in some trouble.
Also, there have been photos of him sporting a big ol' beer gut in spring training. This, in addition to his "back spasms" (a popular injury for out-of-shape people who try to push themselves after months of dormancy) make me a tad concerned. Luckily, New York also has a ton of question marks in their rotation. |
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itisnextyr |
#8 | |||
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Dawg in Training
Posts: 530 03/21/08 1:05 PM Rem Pup |
We will be fine. Beckett will bounce back. He got lucky not having to go to Japan. Wake will stink out 14 or so wins (with his 5.00+ era) mainly because of the
offense. Dice K will be as good if not better than last year. I think Lester and Buchholz will both shine. Good pen. Great closer. I expect zero from Schill
and Colon. ..The real question is will this be enough to win the AL East ? We better hope so because I dont see the Wild Card in our divison again this year
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TheMalzone |
#9 | |||
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Rem Pup
Posts: 33 03/21/08 1:10 PM Rem Pup |
2006 was a transition year from NL to AL for Josh Beckett. That is not the case in 2008.
Also the gratuitous photo shown of his stomach was hardly what any one would consider, "a big ol' beer gut", and far from uncommon. The supposition that..., "Back - spasm are (a popular injury for out-of-shape people who try to push themselves after months of dormancy)" is simply not the case. i.e; Here is some more specific insight on this. ('Multifidus EMG and Tension-Relaxation Recovery after Prolonged Static Lumbar Flexion,' Spine, Vol. 26(7), pp. 715-723, April 2001). ' "Few 'active' individuals are able to escape completely from the pangs of back spasms, which are among the most common of all athletic injuries. Usually, spasms prey on the muscles in the lower back, rather than the upper regions of the torso. The origins of back spasms are diverse, but it is clear that they are often a response to an injury or inflammation of the spinal region. In many cases, the muscles of the back themselves are injured or inflamed, but the spine itself, including the thin cartilaginous discs between the spinal vertebrae and the ligaments which connect the vertebrae, may also be the source of the difficulty. Some back-spasm experts believe that spasms are a reaction by which the body attempts to immobilize the spine and thus prevent further injury. Naturally, the injuries that produce back spasms might be caused by 'overuse' (chronic muscular exertion without adequate recovery) or by a single, traumatic incident. In the case of overuse, repeated 'rotational' movements of the spine, such as the swinging motions required for 'baseball', cricket, tennis, squash, handball, racquetball, or golf, may eventually lead to an injury or inflammation of the vertebrae, spinal discs, ligaments of the spine, or spinal muscles themselves. Further - 'Scientific investigations have noted that back spasms are linked with prolonged and/or excessive flexion of the back.
Last Edited By: TheMalzone 03/21/08 1:16 PM.
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eekman63 |
#10 | |||
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RemDawg
Posts: 4957 03/21/08 1:15 PM Stat Dawg |
I'm feeling pretty good about the pitching this year.
Not having a 40 year old Schilling for most of or all the year isn't that bad a thing IMO. I think Buc and Lester will both shine also. Beckett will be fine, and Dice-K should be better than last year. Wakefield may be old, but like Phil Niekro, these knuckle ballers can pitch into their high 40s! (I think it was 47 for Phil)
Every day is a new adventure!
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squashhead |
Quality pitching is depth in MLB | #11 | ||
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Rem Pup
Posts: 2 03/21/08 11:58 PM |
Any team that has (at the ML and minor-league levels)7-8 potential starters and 10-12 relievers who can come up to the ML and get outs(even if only for a
couple of appearances) has an excellent staff. Sure some of the kid pitchers aren't going to contribute early on, but by mid-season they'll be that
depth. Most teams have at best 1 good starter, 2 average starters, and a kid or a rag-arm or 2 in the rotation. Look at the Blue Jays the last couple of
years. Excellent ML pitching, but no minor-league depth. And it cost them. Atlanta has this depth year-in, year-out. Kids that come up, start 1 or 2 games, get
people out, and are replaced with another kid before teams can get a good read on the 1st one.
I am more concerned with the long-term position players. Only Moss showed me very much. |
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Ang43 |
#12 | |||
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Hot Dawg
Posts: 1090 03/22/08 9:18 AM Hot Dawg |
I am a little concerned about the pitching staff. There's no question that the talent is high & there is potential for them to be the best. I'm
just concerned about injury and how the new boys will hold up!
Ang |
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zimmerolls |
#13 | |||
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RemDawg
Posts: 5482 03/22/08 11:53 AM Deputy Dawg |
I am ready to enjoy a season of baseball and look forward to the progress of Bucholz and Lester. Love to watch Beckett pitch all the time and think that Dice-K
will be able to get on with baseball and less with the circus of MLB. And of course I am hopeful that it will be a good as always to watch people struggle with
Wake's knuck. I do have concerns as always in about the bullpen, but the fact that we have Papel-dancer and Okajima are so often bullet proof helps make me
'breathe' during the 8th and 9th (some years I have had no oxygen at all during that time)
Sue
Sorry to ask this--did we just win ANOTHER World Series?
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eekman63 |
#14 | |||
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RemDawg
Posts: 4958 03/22/08 1:14 PM Stat Dawg |
"(some years I have had no oxygen at all during that time) "
-Sue Indeed, I think my skin color turned purple for a large part of the 1990s due to the bullpens back then.
Every day is a new adventure!
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Sox Sweep Again |
#15 | |||
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Dawg in Training
Posts: 859 03/24/08 1:00 AM Dawg in Training |
I'm worried that not one pitcher was transcendent in ST.
That is all.
____________________________________________________
"Losing is bad enough,'' Cashman said. "But it certainly makes it worse because of how we lost it and who we lost it to.'' |
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marcgoldman |
#16 | |||
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RemDawg
Posts: 6857 03/26/08 5:52 PM RemDawg |
The pitching could be outstanding or could be an issue. It certainly isn't the best scenario to have Beckett start the year on ice. Schilling being lost to
the team for at least a half a year total changes the make up of the staff. If Beckett spends extended time on the DL this just isn't a great staff.
The RS catch some early breaks with the Japan trip as far as breaking up the starts but as of today Jon Lester or Tim Wakefield is our #2 starter and that is not ideal when facing an elite AL team in a 4 game series. Buchholz amazing start may have set the expectations and the reality of his actual MLB readiness into conflict. Playing in the AL for the Boston Red Sox at this point in time isn't necessarily the best place to get OJT as a starting pitcher. The bullpen looks good with the only question being how Francona will adapt to the inevitable return to planet earth that awaits Okajima IMHO. Perhaps Manny D is ready to shoulder more key set up innings. Aside from that this is a pretty deep group with a top of the game finisher. Of course BPs come and go in the blink of an eye but this does seem to be a well constructed one. The RS will score runs as they always do. Manny and David are likely to produce more this year and could JD Drew ever be that bad again? Tek might decline at the plate and Lowell is likely not to be as productive as 2007 but over all the team will score. The staring rotation was the key in 2007 and it will be again in 2008. If Beckett doesn't have a Cy Young year this year I just don't see how the staff will be better than the 2007 teams. It is IMHO opinion the biggest question mark and why the favorites in the AL until they prove they aren't are the Tigers. Just my take. Marc |
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TheMalzone |
#17 | |||
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Rem Pup
Posts: 34 03/27/08 12:39 PM Rem Pup |
All valid points. The starting rotation is always key in any year, because it's true pitching is 90% of the game, but on this point..., "that is not
ideal when facing an elite AL team in a 4 game series" --
Who's elite? I don't see that. Cleveland is perhaps the most balanced but, Detroit, Yankees, Angels, Seattle and the like? Let's face it most AL 'elite' teams are unbalanced, one-sided heavyweight (offensive) line-ups with virtually no starting pitching past the #2 spot, weak bullpens, with major depth issues up and down their organizations for starters, middle, & set-up. Not so true in Boston. The '08 Sox do not have to compete with their own history and be a 'great' staff, just be more stable and deeper then the other guy's. As the season rolls on I believe we'll see they have succeed greatly in that area.
Last Edited By: TheMalzone 03/27/08 12:46 PM.
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marcgoldman |
#18 | |||
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RemDawg
Posts: 6862 03/28/08 3:30 PM RemDawg |
TheMalzone wrote:
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TheMalzone |
#19 | |||
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Rem Pup
Posts: 37 03/28/08 5:01 PM Rem Pup |
This is not about losing an Ace, is it? It is about the entire pitching staff.
However to go along, and with all things being equal, (every teams loses their Ace), I contend the negative effect on the so called 'elite' teams would be greater because overall the Boston Red Sox are deeper 2-7 in starters, (if necessary), and certainly in the bullpen and at the AAA level. I included 2 - 7 & AAA, because they all come in to play over the course of the season. Clay Buckholtz was our # 7 last year. There is more to this then just the #2 starter stepping up when the Ace goes down. Every Ace is the 'lynch pin to their respective teams. There are many individuals that have to step up beyond the #2 or 3, starters, it's right on down the line. There is the immediate increase of 'quality' innings demanded on the 'entire' pitching staff, especially the pen because the game goes on after the 5th inning. And thats where the entire staffs come into play. Even with throwing in a 'special' circumstance like losing an Ace, no team has depth like the Boston Red Sox. In Detroit, Verlander goes down - look out Detroit, they have no one and the pen is already in disarray of injuries. In NY, Wang goes down, Pettite and Mussina are never going to eat innings like Dice K and Wakefield can. Furthermore, Boston has a better chance of getting 175 - 200 innings out of Lester and Buckholtz then NYY does with Hughes and Kennedy. Or any team for that matter, without question. They're good, they're solid, they're deep. |
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marcgoldman |
#20 | |||
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RemDawg
Posts: 6864 03/28/08 6:12 PM RemDawg |
Your point is accurate that any team feels the adverse impact when the ace is subtracted. My point was and still is that the RS will be at a disadvantage if
their's goes down and that is magnified by Schilling's declining health which has taken him out of the rotation rather than placing him there, lighter
and healthier than he was in 2007 and focused on a final legacy season. I am not making the case that if Detroit or Seattle or NYY or Cleveland loses theirs
they won't be affected. (And let it be noted at least for 2008 if they traded Lester and Ellsburry for Santana this would not be the case).
But in the case of both two of the teams (Detroit and NY), their offense is better. Don't get me wrong the RS are a fine team. But in a slugfest the NYY and Tigers are just going to bring more firepower to the gun fight. I am very enrolled into your bullpen theory and I believe that the RS have the most established one. Call this intuition, the RS fan fear of the other shoe dropping or whatever, I don't believe that Okajima will have the year he did in 2007. Hitters by the end of last year were having a better chance of reading the split coming out of his hand. So there will be some shuffling of appearances and roles but this is a fine group, equal to the Angels. But when you talk 5th inning on, you are talking a transformation of Terry Francona's comfort zone and his management philosophy. Terry since he arrived is very committed to his starters and that he wants 6-7 innings from every start. He pulls starters reluctantly under 100 pitches and usually has the scoreboard demanding it. This is not to bag on Tito who has two very large rings to his credit but he is the anti-Captain Hook and when he has been given the right roster and it stays healthy enough the results can be brilliant. Perhaps we are just nimbling on edges here? The question was how do you feel about the staff? My answer was the bullpen is state-of-the-game but we know that is fragile in the modern game and that loss of Schilling and Beckett having back troubles so early in the year concern me in an AL so loaded with run producing line-ups. The fact that the 2007 RS only finished 2 games in front of the NYY when they had a horrible rash of injuries should indicate how potent the opponent can be. The conventional wisdom in the modern game is that you never play a pat hand with a championship team anymore. The RS to their own admittance have and that was largely based on the speculation that young guys like Ellsbury, Buchholz, Lester and Delcarmen, were going to bring more to the table. In the case of the young pitchers we will see, ST often means very little but that more to the table got larger with Schilling perhaps done for ever and Josh Beckett nursing a bad back. There are lots of positives about this team and I am much happier being a RS than than I would be being an Orioles fan about our chances but the year is not without risks. Pitching is always one, no matter how great things look coming out of ST.
Last Edited By: marcgoldman 03/28/08 6:15 PM.
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