| Author | Comment | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
yaztheman |
Send Wake to the Pen! |
Lead | ||
|
I think it's high time the starting rotation is relieved of the torture that is a Tim Wakefield start and send him to the bullpen. He is less reliable now
than he ever was (and that's not saying much) and his ERA, which usually grows as the season goes on, is already 5.19 after yesterday's debacle. By
sending him to the pen, we regain a long man, who could be extremely effective during a game when replacing a pitcher throwing 90-95 as do most of the Sox
starters. Plus, with Colon, Buchholz & Masterson, we already have 3 candidates for 2 slots in the rotation. Who gets taken out of the pen? Either
Timlin, Aardsma or Hansen. Making this move will, IMO, provide the Sox with a much more solid pitching staff and I would hope they take action on this soon.
Red Sox . . . Champions of the New Millennium
|
||||
|
|
||||
MyYaYa |
#1 | |||
|
You know what Yaz? I suggested this move on another thread after Tavarez was dfa. At that time many were negative about it because of the catcher issue.
Heavens no, they all said, because Tek cannot catch Wake, he has a terrible record at it, and it would not work. They did not convince me then. I take the
position on the catcher issue that Tek catching Wake as a reliever would be more productive than having Wake continue as a very inconsistent starter. And, of
course, the team does have Cash who might work as a reliever catcher when needed. JMHO!
Ann |
||||
|
|
||||
eekman63 |
#2 | |||
|
I agree, yaz, Wakefield should be the long man out of the pen -- and Buchholz should get back into the rotation as soon as his 15 days are up!
Every day is a new adventure!
|
||||
|
|
||||
AWilliams7 |
#3 | |||
|
I agree with both of you. Wake goes to the pen, and Cash can always come in when Wake comes in and give Tek a rest. I'd keep Aardsma; as he seems to be
less wild than Hanson, and though I can't believe I'm writing this, I guess Timlin has done well in his last outings. At least with Buchholz,
there's hope of mostly good starts. With Wake as a starter.... life is miserable. If they are worried about Buchholz working too many innings this year, he
could be occasionally skipped for Masterson (once a month, let's say), and then there's hope that Schilling will someday be in the rotation, too, which
takes the pressure off using Buchholz too much.
Ann |
||||
|
|
||||
Angela.gunsnroses14385 |
#4 | |||
|
I'm not sure this would happen, out of loyalty to Wake. It certainly would improve the pen though!
Ang |
||||
|
|
||||
yaztheman |
#5 | |||
|
I think loyalty to Wake keeps him on the team, but not necessarily in the starting rotation.
Red Sox . . . Champions of the New Millennium
|
||||
|
|
||||
tjrooster |
#6 | |||
|
Not sure I agree - at least not yet. I know 2 of his last three outings were bad, but his numbers don't look much different than last year projected out.
He could get squeezed out if they feel Buchholz is pitching sharp and ready for a call back, but until then, or an injury, Wake will get a few more starts. You
never know with him, and that is what is frustrating. His next outing could be a gem!
He has had succes out of the bullpen, but a knuckle ball pitcher out of the 'pen creates problems for the coaching staff. You don't want to bring him in with a runner on third in a close game - too risky for a passed ball to a catcher who has been catching fastballs all night. You also hesitate to bring him in late in a close game - home run risk can be high. My thought is he stays in the rotation, at least until they feel Buchholz is ready to come back up. If they feel strongly about Buchholz coming up, and the rotation is full, then something has to give, and it may be Wake. But, I think Sox management really prefers Wake as a starter too. Give him time - his numbers will be there, and we may need him to eat innings as the season goes. |
||||
|
|
||||
rolanddoe |
#7 | |||
|
The only way this would work would be to carry a third catcher. You can't be going to your backup every time a starter implodes or feels something pop and
risk him being injured and having to play Youkilis or God only knows who else behind the plate. Then the question becomes where does this roster spot open up
and at what cost to the team dynamic? The only way to keep the manager's options intact would be for this catcher to also be an effective reliever himself
or herself. And I say herself because you're as likely to find a girl that can do this as a guy.
Even if there was a Biggio type position player out there to trade for, who do you want to part with to get him? It's a lot to go through just to be covered for moving Wake to the pen. I'm at the point with this insurgence of young pitching talent where I've become willing to just let go of guys like Schilling and Timlin. And if it keeps guys like Buchholz and Masterson in the minors too long, the Sox may just have to pass on the best one-up in baseball one of these years. But anyway, this year the sanest approach is to let Wakefield continue to make his starts and hope he starts clicking with more consistence. If not Buchholz is supposedly staying at Pawtucket awhile to work on his arm slot. And Schilling is possibly on the horizon. There's also the question of whether the rotation itself is strong enough to withstand such a change. With Dice-K and Lester's tendency to struggle to make five or six innings, do you really want a guy taking space in the bullpen who you're reluctant to bring in? One question; do they have options left with Delcarmen? Because Aardsma is our second best out of the pen right now and Hansen has improved enough to deserve a longer look. |
||||
|
|
||||
youngd2 |
#8 | |||
AWilliams7 wrote: Cash does not come in to relieve 'Tek unless the game is a blowout. He can catch Wake and has done so before.
_________________
Green Monster 1947 - 2002. RIP |
||||
|
|
||||
pat02155 |
#9 | |||
|
Delcarmen does not have any options left, Hansen is the only middle reliever that has options.
|
||||
|
|
||||
MyYaYa |
#10 | |||
|
Welcome rolanddoe! I can't say that I agree with your points. There is too much reliance, for my taste, on possibilities, uncertainty, hopes, and anticipation in what you suggest. I guess it seems like too much shuffling and releasing......more consistency is what we need, and, Derek, I continue to maintain that we are correct. Tek can catch Wake. Even good old Dougie had passed balls after all. Ann |
||||
|
|
||||
eekman63 |
#11 | |||
|
Well, it looks like a moot argument with Dice-K out and due to miss his next start.
You can bet that Buchholz will make that start and keep that position in the rotation, and the decision about the rotation will have to wait until Dice-K is back (whenever that may be)
Every day is a new adventure!
|
||||
|
|
||||
tjrooster |
#12 | |||
|
That's what often happens - no one has too much pitching for very long. I can definitely picture Dice-K skipping a start, and bringing Buchholz back up if
the timing works out in Buchholz's currrent program.
With Buchholz being young and with options, he's the guy who may do the most bouncing back and forth, just like Lester has done in the past. Wakefield is a fun debate, but the Sox are not moving him anywhere for a while. They know he has good and bad starts, they prefer him as a starter, and they can't send him anywhere. They like his ability to eat innings, and he is experienced. While it may be frustrating when he's not doing well, I don't expect he'll be going anywhere, barring injury. -------------------------- Rational Sox Fan |
||||
|
|
||||
sbukoski |
#13 | |||
|
I wonder if we'll see Masterson start in Dice-Ks spot right now to give Buchholz a little more rehab time. If Dice-K misses more time, then it becoms more
likely Clay would take his spot. Either way, I like the options.
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me, and 90% how I react to it. And so it is with you ... we are in charge of our Attitudes"
- Charles Swindoll |
||||
|
|
||||
Santsman |
#14 | |||
|
A little too early for the "ship Wake to the pen" talk. This is his annual 3-5 start part of season where he is not sharp. He will break out it in
June and be fine. Having Wake in the pen does not help this team, just like rushing Buchholz back is not going to help this team. Clay could probably use some
more time in RI. Starting pitching has not been the issue with this team, it is the offense. They are not putting up the runs against the #3-#5 pitchers that
they should be. Wake stays in the rotation where he should be. Dice K will probably get a 15 day vacation as well so the Buchholz point may be moot.
Sants
Thanks 5, 18, 45, 38, 34, 24, 33, 49 and 7 for 2004. Thanks 24, 34, 18, 33, 46, 59, 38, 19, 15, 25 and 7 for 2007. Thanks 8, 9, 27, 14, 19, 42, 39 and 21 for all the good years. Here's to back to back championships in 2008. |
||||
|
|
||||
eekman63 |
#15 | |||
|
I disagree; the offense is not the problem.
The Red Sox lead the AL in batting average and on-base percentage, are second in runs scored to Texas, and have been fine hitting against anyone not named Bedard. The Red Sox' problem this year has been their pitching. Mainly the bullpen.
Every day is a new adventure!
|
||||
|
|
||||
marcgoldman |
#16 | |||
|
I tend to agree with Eekman63 when we talk about the longer view, the offense is top 3 in the AL for road runs and number 1 in home runs scored.
Meanwhile they are 7th in the AL for runs allowed by the pitching staff. The bullpen has often been awful. That said I am not sure Tim Wakefield's gfame is built to fix that or that Clay Buchholz is prepared to give the RS stability and 6 plus innings in rotation on a consistent basis. I know the RS have scuffled at the plate on this road trip but their bigger issue is they allow opponents an average of 4 earned runs and they have already blown 9 of their 25 save opportunities. That is ugly. For perspective only the Rangers have a lesser SV conversion rate. MLB bullpens are fragile things and right now this one is not healthy. In that light Wakefield's inning eating capability has some appeal to many in RS camp I think, as does Buchholz undefined potential to excel does for others. I think the RS will make the right call over time with the rotation but right now it is all about the bullpen IMHO. |
||||
|
|
||||
tjrooster |
#17 | |||
|
It is true - the Sox' biggest weakness is middle relief, we've known that all year.
With Wakefield's start last night, hopefully people can see that he will be up and down, and that can be frustrating, but he can also be light's out. 8 innings, only 1 run, no walks, 8 K's! He'll have a few more bad games this year, but he'll also have a few more gems like this. that's why they'll stick with him, as long as he's healthy. I hear Masterson may make another visit to Fenway on Tuesday? |
||||
|
|
||||
marcgoldman |
#18 | |||
|
Every year we have one of these threads it seems since the early days when this board was on Yahoo. And the threads almost always come right before Wakefield
gets on one of his good streaks where he is stingy with runs and eats innings in bunches. Wakefield is a very capable bottom of the rotation pitcher who works
for nominal dollars because he loves it here.
The young guys on this team are going to have their pitch counts managed closely this year, that is the way the FO wants it. That radically reduces the chances of their being able to eat the kind of innings that Wakefield can. And those innings equate in less innings for the bullpen and that improves the bullpen. While I certain relate to anyone who finds a Wakefield outing a maddening experience. The passed balls, the inability to hold runs and the hangers that are launched into the Ozone are all nerve wracking. But after so many years of watching that I for one have come to understanding that at the end of any 162 game season Tim Wakefield fills a very valuable hole in the rotation. |
||||
|
|
||||
MyYaYa |
#19 | |||
|
My point was never that Wake was useless in the rotation. He does have the good games and does have experience, and besides that I just plain like him. But he
sure has some painful off days. My reasoning for suggesting on another thread that he go to the pen was that he could become the long reliever. That was in
response to a query by a poster when Tavarez was released regarding who would now become the long reliever. If one looked around at available pitchers, there
did not seem to be a long reliever candidate who would cut the proverbial mustard excepting Wake. I also knew that he has been willing to do whatever the team
needs him to do. Now that the team has put together a variety of combinations that take the place of a long reliever, I would not think it necessary at this
time to consider sending Wake out with the steel drum band. Guess I too have been around long enough to know about ups and downs and the ultimate value of the
man. One of those assets is that he understands what it means to be a team player.
Ann |
||||
|
|
||||